Ruth Binkins "Ironically, during the finalisation of this article, I contacted Amy (who has the amazing carnivore nutrient profile shown above) and she advised she was no longer following a zero carb dietary approach and was now pursuing a nutrient dense omnivorous approach. She had found that she started to gain weight after 2.5 years on a carnivorous diet and her thyroid function diminished. Amy, who was previously an admin for a major carnivore Facebook group, says:
“All of these, coupled with my EXTREMELY high LDL cholesterol of 500 and my 7-year lack of menstrual cycle, points directly to a failing thyroid. ZC made it WORSE… MUCH worse. I went back to a mixed diet in January of this year. Within 2 weeks of this diet change, I regained all of my natural bowel motility. And, surprisingly, within 2 months my menstrual cycle returned after 7 years of absence!! I regained my energy, and I’m now walking daily again, doing daily hour-long sessions of yoga (which I used to love doing years ago), lifting weights 3 days a week, and doing 20 minute HIIT workouts 3 days a week. I’ve put on some weight, but I look and feel very healthy. I notice that I’m frequently hot now instead of cold, which I presume is a symptom of my thyroid upregulating to where it should be. I am scheduled to have a complete thyroid panel, lipid panel, and other hormone tests run at the end of March to see where I am. But I can clearly tell you that ZC did NOT do MY body any favors.”
Overall, it’s probably fair to say that a carnivore diet can benefit many, however, I think it’s probably too soon to say it’s optimal for everyone. If you do want to pursue a carnivorous diet, then the Nutrient Optimiser can help you identify foods to get as much nutrition as you can within that framework. If you find that you want something with a little bit more variety and want to include some plants, then autoimmune, lactose-free, nut free, or shellfish free options are available to suit your allergies, preferences and intolerances"
https://optimisingnutrition.com/.../dr-shawn-bakers.../Manage
“All of these, coupled with my EXTREMELY high LDL cholesterol of 500 and my 7-year lack of menstrual cycle, points directly to a failing thyroid. ZC made it WORSE… MUCH worse. I went back to a mixed diet in January of this year. Within 2 weeks of this diet change, I regained all of my natural bowel motility. And, surprisingly, within 2 months my menstrual cycle returned after 7 years of absence!! I regained my energy, and I’m now walking daily again, doing daily hour-long sessions of yoga (which I used to love doing years ago), lifting weights 3 days a week, and doing 20 minute HIIT workouts 3 days a week. I’ve put on some weight, but I look and feel very healthy. I notice that I’m frequently hot now instead of cold, which I presume is a symptom of my thyroid upregulating to where it should be. I am scheduled to have a complete thyroid panel, lipid panel, and other hormone tests run at the end of March to see where I am. But I can clearly tell you that ZC did NOT do MY body any favors.”
Overall, it’s probably fair to say that a carnivore diet can benefit many, however, I think it’s probably too soon to say it’s optimal for everyone. If you do want to pursue a carnivorous diet, then the Nutrient Optimiser can help you identify foods to get as much nutrition as you can within that framework. If you find that you want something with a little bit more variety and want to include some plants, then autoimmune, lactose-free, nut free, or shellfish free options are available to suit your allergies, preferences and intolerances"
https://optimisingnutrition.com/.../dr-shawn-bakers.../Manage
Michael Frieze Amy never did follow the typical carnivore diet that put an emphasis on fatty meat. She ate very lean (too lean IMO) and was mostly eating other animals rather than beef. She supplemented too. She was talking about using the toilet once every 10 days or something and calling that normal. To me, that isn't normal.
So, it isn't even really fair to say that it isn't optimal for everyone just because Amy had a hard time. Also, what optimal means is different for everyone. Not everyone wants to just eat fatty steaks all the time. Some would prefer a mixed diet.
ManageSo, it isn't even really fair to say that it isn't optimal for everyone just because Amy had a hard time. Also, what optimal means is different for everyone. Not everyone wants to just eat fatty steaks all the time. Some would prefer a mixed diet.
Ruth Binkins What do you say to going over 3 years ZC, did you notice anything shift in year 4 and onwards?
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Michael Frieze No, things were good for me after the first year. But, I ate a lot different than Amy did.
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Michael Frieze That article is also a lot of nonsense. They compared us to ZIOH and made it sound like we do not account for confirmation bias. Which is upsetting to me, because that is exactly what I have tried to account for.
I built this group on humility and the understanding that the dogmatic approach to diet doesn't work. The idea was to have good-faith based discussions and have an awareness of confirmation bias. I don't think the person who wrote this article did enough research and clearly started with a confirmation bias of their own.
I guess they need to look in the mirror.
ManageI built this group on humility and the understanding that the dogmatic approach to diet doesn't work. The idea was to have good-faith based discussions and have an awareness of confirmation bias. I don't think the person who wrote this article did enough research and clearly started with a confirmation bias of their own.
I guess they need to look in the mirror.
Michael Frieze Also, notice that Amy is #13 on this list: https://nutrientoptimiser.com/leaderboard/Manage
Michael Frieze This is when she was eating ZC
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Michael Frieze well, her form of ZC.
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Gregg Sheehan It is worth noting that the article quotes me in a discussion I had with Marty Kendall. Essentially the RDAs seem to be be based on the best they can cobble together of the modern diets - including the SAD (which of course includes grains). I suggested they were all out of kilter with what had been keeping us surviving as a species for the 2.5 million years we've been around.
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Éva LaRoche Michael, in this interview, she mentions she also started to fast, which goes totally against ZC, as I understand. This may have played a major role in ZC not working for her.
Here's the specific part where she talks about fasting:...See MoreManage
Here's the specific part where she talks about fasting:...See MoreManage
Michael Frieze I don't remember her fasting very often, but its possible. More than likely just not eating enough fat. Too may organs and supplements can be issues too. Hard to say. She just did things somewhat differently and had issues long before eating this way. As many of us did before we got here.
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Michael Frieze I dont think fasting is totally against ZC. Many people eating ZC eat only once per day. That is technically fasting, but I understand that is not generally what people think of when they think about fasting.
One of the benefits of ZC is that it make...See More
ManageOne of the benefits of ZC is that it make...See More
Rachel Cobb Chamness Interesting. I find the thyroid tests to be very wonky. They have increasingly been wrong for me. At first I thought my thyroid was getting worse, and the doc kept upping my medicine... but then the medicine made me feel like I was on speed.
I stoppe...See More
ManageI stoppe...See More
Michael Frieze Hopefully, it last.
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Erdem Dilman I think her huge mistake was eating too many different animal products at the same time which is against nature. She didn't keep it simple. Different animal products requires different enzymes in the body. If she is healthier now I'm happy for her.
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Lauren Mongrain I think variety is still something to be embraced. There should be a focus on red meats like beef, lamb, and other wild meats, but it isn't unnatural to think that you'd encounter and catch a rabbit and/or squirrel one day a large ruminant another. I focus on beef with some seafood with the occasional duck or pork.
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Dustin Dowd I was lot more active on this site when Amy was posting often, she'd post a photo of her meal everyday and I do want to point out that she was supplementing quite a lot of supplements lots of salt and seasonings and having a sample of everything from the animal kingdom everyday including eggs which many have a problem losing weight with. She was never doing strictly "beef and water". I've found that all the long termers stick to strictly beef and water and never seem to have issues. I know when I add the eggs or dairy or chicken or whatever I find issues arise. 2.25 years zc here. I was hypothyroid before zc and everything is fine now.
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Ricky Berger Same.
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Evans Dealio So far.. I feel very similar. Beef. Water.
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Rachel Cobb Chamness Dustin Dowd - I went a few weeks on chicken and pork mainly (without noticing, I was busy) and had the same problem. Also recently I have eaten mainly ground beef and found myself getting really really hungry and having too many cravings so had to get some ribeye.
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Rachel Cobb Chamness I add cheese and often an egg and bacon. and it's 85/15 but just not enough fat really
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Lauren Mongrain Yeah, I eat 100% grass-fed ground beef (it's affordable for me), and that's only 80/20. I add lots of fat to bump it up. Either butter, tallow, or something like duck fat. It definitely helps.
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Adeline Leng Rachel Cobb Chamness well...I made them myself 
😣 but it just feels...wrong to my body somehow. If you know what I mean!
Manage😣 but it just feels...wrong to my body somehow. If you know what I mean!
Rachel Cobb Chamness I tried going off plan last summer per (bad and expensive) naturopath's suggestion and it was MISERABLE.
I finally got over the hurtle of extreme pain for adding in fiberous things but then I was like on a SUGAR TRAIN - so many cravings and felt tire...See More
ManageI finally got over the hurtle of extreme pain for adding in fiberous things but then I was like on a SUGAR TRAIN - so many cravings and felt tire...See More
Rachel Cobb Chamness https://www.spooky2-mall.com/blog/how-rife-works/
Beware there is a TON of research and learning to do but you can join the FB groups to learn and go slowly. It's amazingManage
Beware there is a TON of research and learning to do but you can join the FB groups to learn and go slowly. It's amazingManage
Dustin Dowd Are you reading what we're posing about her woe here Joelle? She was not strictly beef and water. Though aside from what we recommend here- to take one persons personal experience as a deciding factor in your choice for health is quite presumptuous. If that's all you needed to hear to make your decision.
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Joelle Vissers Dustin Dowd I've seen many of Amy's posts and aside of this, I also don't truly believe that only meat&water would've been a game-changer for her. Nor do I believe that it would be for me over a long period. I've been around the healthfood block many y...See More
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Rachel Cobb Chamness I guess it's true that this diet isn't for everyone. But I'd like to know WHAT makes it so. Is it a DNA thing, is it a reaction to plants thing? Are we evolved from a similar humanoid?
I'm SO INTERESTED in this, wish I had the answer.
ManageI'm SO INTERESTED in this, wish I had the answer.
Carly Beth Ingerson Joelle Vissers So you're just going to take one woman's experience and try lumping together every female in that it could have problems for them? If that is how you feel, than I am aberrant. My hormones have regulated thanks to carnivore, so long as I ...See More
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Dustin Dowd I don't know the answer either Rachel though what I've noticed is that everyone has a different experience of metabolic damage that either comes from birth carried over from your parents or developed through life from consuming frankenfoods etc or both...See More
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Rachel Cobb Chamness That's really what I think my problem is.
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Michael Frieze But somehow, this thread got turned into "maybe this way of eating isn't for everyone?" Then comes all the assumptions and speculation.
Of course, this way of eating isn't for everyone and there are various reasons why this is true. That isn't the only reason she left.
ManageOf course, this way of eating isn't for everyone and there are various reasons why this is true. That isn't the only reason she left.
Gregg Sheehan Amy wanted a rest. No problem with that, and it doesn't prove anything about the carnivorous diet.
1. Many, if not most, people come to this way of eating because they've exhausted all the other avenues in their search for healing something that was l...See More
Manage1. Many, if not most, people come to this way of eating because they've exhausted all the other avenues in their search for healing something that was l...See More
Michael Frieze You have a way with words Gregg Sheehan.
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Evans Dealio I was wondering what happened with Amy. I enjoyed her posts and tried mimicking her plates minutes sauerkraut quite a few times. They were always tasty... but never felt sustainable or fulfilling for me.
I do wish she would have shared this decision herself, opposed to someone relating a comment. It could be the eye opener for many of us continuing on the ZC path....
ManageI do wish she would have shared this decision herself, opposed to someone relating a comment. It could be the eye opener for many of us continuing on the ZC path....
Kevin Ramirez Amy was a wonderful person and had a lot of good posts. She really helped me jump over to this lifestyle which I am extremely grateful for, and I appreciate all the other admins here. Its tough what they all do, and is a lot to handle. Whatever she decides, I just hope she continues to improve and find whats best for her.
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