Tuesday 31 October 2017
Vitamin B6 and B12 Supplements Appear to Cause Cancer in Men
A newly discovered risk associated with common energy and metabolism pills
JAMES HAMBLIN
AUG 25, 2017 HEALTH
Energy. If you’re not taking vitamin B12, forget about having energy. As The Dr. Oz Show has recommended, “End your energy crisis with Vitamin B12.” The nice thing about sublingual pills is “you don’t need a doctor, you don’t need a prescription.”
And don’t get me started on metabolism. If you want to “supercharge your metabolism and energy levels,” Amazon can deliver you a tall bottle of B12 supplements by the end of the day. Your metabolic processes will be the envy of the neighborhood. (“Is Janice ... on something?” “Yes—B12!”)
These are the sort of vague marketing claims that have propelled the cobalt-based compounds sold as B12 into American hearts and minds and blood in ever-growing quantities. They are extrapolations from the fact that B12 deficiency causes anemia, and correcting that deficiency will alleviate symptoms of fatigue and weakness. But as the National Institutes of Health notes, “Vitamin B12 supplementation appears to have no beneficial effect on performance in the absence of a nutritional deficit.”
Nonetheless around 50 percent of people in the United States take some form of “dietary supplement” product, and among the most common are B vitamins. Worse than just a harmless waste of money, this usage could be actively dangerous. In an issue of the Journal of Clinical Oncology, published this week, researchers reported that taking vitamin B6 and B12 supplements in high doses (like those sold in many stores) appears to triple or almost quadruple some people’s risk of lung cancer.
This is a heavy claim about a very common substance, so it’s worth spending a minute on the methodology. Concerns about B-vitamin supplements and cancer have been percolating for years. They came up quietly in a large trial in Norway that concluded ten years ago. Starting in 1998, researchers assigned 6,837 people with heart disease to take either B vitamins or a placebo.
The researchers then watched as people died and contracted diseases in ensuing years—and the vitamin group raised concerns. In 2009, the researchers reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association that taking high doses of vitamin B12 along with folic acid (technically vitamin B9) was associated with greater risk of cancer and all-cause mortality.
Using more than 55 micrograms daily appeared to quadruple cancer risk.
The largest increase in cancer risk was in the lung. Still, the number of cases of lung cancer among these 6,837 Norwegians was relatively small—so the actual risk was difficult to quantify. But it was big enough to catch the attention of Theodore Brasky and Emily White, two researchers at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. White had been overseeing a cohort study that involved more than ten times as many people as the Norwegian trial, some 77,000 people across the state of Washington. The cohort is tracking their supplement intake as we speak, and it is also being followed for cancers by the National Cancer Registry.
The Washington study was specifically designed to examine the roles of “dietary supplements”—compounds known as vitamins, minerals, and non-vitamin non-mineral compounds like ginseng—in cancer risk. This was an ideal setup to look at the relationship between B vitamins and cancer, and see if it was indeed worthy of concern. So Brasky and White, along with Chi-Ling Chen at National Taiwan University, broke down this population by B-vitamin use and looked at cancers. Unfortunately their findings were even more significant than the Norwegian trial.
Lung-cancer risk among men who took 20 milligrams of B6 daily for years was twice that of men who didn’t. Among people who smoke, the effect appeared to be synergistic, with B6 usage increasing risk threefold. The risk was even worse among smokers taking B12. Using more than 55 micrograms daily appeared to almost quadruple lung-cancer risk.
There was no apparent risk among women—which is not to say it doesn’t exist, only that it wasn’t apparent.
Why or how would B vitamins increase a person’s risk of cancer?
I asked Brasky what he thought was going on. It’s all hypothetical, and he has no clear idea bout the sex discrepancy. What he does know is that B vitamins all contribute enzymes and coenzymes to a metabolic pathway that breaks down folate in order to make the bases that comprise DNA. The pathway also regulates the expression of genes (by creating methyl groups that can essentially turn genes on and off). When we have too little of these B vitamins, this pathway can go wrong, leading to problems like incorporation of the wrong types of bases into DNA, which can cause breaks in the strands, and, in theory, lead to cancer.
We’re best to treat vitamins more like pharmaceuticals than like panaceas to be shoveled into us.
Deficiency can also mean genes that should be inhibited are no longer inhibited, also potentially meaning cancer. Sufficiency of certain vitamins is important in cancer prevention, but avoiding excess appears to be similarly important.
Among smokers, who are already exposed to carcinogens, the effect of taking anything that impairs these cellular processes could be even more likely to lead to cancer.
The research team is quick to note that the doses of B vitamins in question are enormous. The U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowance for B6 is 1.7 milligrams per day, and for B12 it’s 2.4 micrograms. The high-risk group in the study was taking around 20 times these amounts.
That could seem nonsensical, except that these are the doses for sale at healthy-seeming places like Whole Foods and GNC. Many sellers offer daily 100-milligram B6 pills. B12 is available in doses of 5,000 micrograms.
I asked Brasky if his finding means that products like these should be more closely regulated—at least to require selling more reasonable doses, or to disclose risks, as is required for pharmaceuticals. Currently, supplements are absolved from this sort of requirement, or even to prove safety or efficacy before going to market. This is dictated by a 1994 law called the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA).
“The law was created by industry lobbying to keep the FDA away from regulation, so the industry self-regulates,” said Brasky. But he deferred and said he hoped this article wouldn’t be about regulation. “I don’t want to pick a fight with the vitamin industry for any reason.”
So that falls to me. There are legitimate and important uses for B-vitamin supplements, but the emerging evidence suggests we’re best to treat them more like pharmaceuticals than like panaceas to be shoveled into us in pursuit of energy, metabolic fortitude, “cardioprotection,” “bone wellness,” or whatever way in which we’d like to be better.
The enduring theme in health is that more doesn’t mean better. What’s healthy for one person may be unhealthy for another. The fact of a product being sold without a prescription does not mean it is exempt, or that it’s good or even harmless. Any ingested bioactive substance will come with risks and benefits.
The current law gives consumers no reason to expect that risks will be listed on the labels of these products, or that health claims are accurate. A product like a high-dose B6 and B12 supplement hits shelves, and only decades later do researchers begin to understand the long-term health effects, who might benefit from taking it, and who might be harmed.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
JAMES HAMBLIN, MD, is a senior editor at The Atlantic. He hosts the video series If Our Bodies Could Talk and is the author of a book by the same title. | More
Monday 23 October 2017
Ketogenic Diets for Psychiatric Disorders: A New 2017 Review
If you have a brain, you need to know about ketogenic diets. The fact that these specially-formulated low-carbohydrate diets have the power to stop seizures in their tracks is concrete evidence that food has a tremendous impact on brain chemistry and should inspire curiosity about how they work. I first became interested in ketogenic diets as a potential treatment for bipolar mood disorders, given the many similarities between epilepsy and bipolar disorder.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/diagnosis-diet/201706/ketogenic-diets-psychiatric-disorders-new-2017-review
Ketogenic diets have been around for about 100 years, and have proved to be invaluable tools in the treatment of stubborn neurological conditions, most notably epilepsy. They have also shown promise in the management of other brain-based disorders such as Parkinson’s Disease, ALS, Traumatic Brain Injury, Multiple Sclerosis, and chronic headaches, as well as in metabolic disorders like obesity, cancer, and type 2 diabetes.
But where does the science currently stand on the ketogenic diet and psychiatricdisorders like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and Alzheimer’s Disease? How many human studies do we have, and what do they tell us? If you are struggling with mood, attention, or memory problems, should you try a ketogenic diet? If you are a clinician, should you recommend a ketogenic diet to your patients?
A recent review article “The Current Status of the Ketogenic Diet in Psychiatry” by researchers at the University of Tasmania in Australia [Bostock et al 2017 Front Psychiatry 20(8)] brings us nicely up to date on all things ketogenic and mental health. I summarize the paper below and offer some thoughts and suggestions of my own. [Full disclosure: I am a psychiatrist who studies nutrition and eats a ketogenic diet.]
First, some basics for those of you who are unfamiliar with these special diets.
What are Ketogenic Diets?
Definitions vary, but what all ketogenic diets have in common is that they are very low in carbohydrate (typically 20 grams per day or less) and relatively high in fat. The goal is to lower blood sugar and insulin levels; when these are nice and low, the body naturally turns to fat (instead of sugar) as its primary source of energy. Most ketogenic diets also limit protein (to no more than the body requires), because excess protein can raise blood sugar and insulin levels to some extent. Body fat and fat from the diet then break down into ketones, which travel through the bloodstream and can be burned by various cells throughout the body, including most brain cells. Ketone levels rise in the blood, urine and breath within days, and can be measured using various home test methods, but it can take weeks for the body to become efficient at burning fat for energy, and for full benefits to be realized.
When a person is “in ketosis”, fasting morning blood glucose levels tend to average between 60 and 85 (mg/dl), and blood ketone levels rise to at least 0.5 mM (with much higher levels recommended for certain conditions). These parameters distinguish ketogenic diets from other low-carbohydrate diets, which may contain too much protein and/or carbohydrate to produce these metabolic effects.
How do Ketogenic Diets Work?
It remains unclear how ketogenic diets work to control seizures, let alone how they may improve psychiatric symptoms. On a fundamental level, we are not even sure whether it is the presence of ketones, the reduction in blood sugar, the reduction in insulin and other growth-promoting hormones, or the combination of all of these which are responsible for the brain-stabilizing effects of these diets. Theories abound, and include altered neurotransmitter levels, changes in electrolyte gradients (lower intracellular sodium and calcium), reduction in markers of inflammation, and improved mitochondrial function. The general consensus is that the brain functions more cleanly and efficiently when a significant portion of its energy comes from ketones, calming overactive and overly-reactive brain cells.
What about Ketone Supplements?
You can raise your blood ketone levels without changing your diet, by either taking expensive ketone supplements or by ingesting fats high in medium chain triglycerides (MCTs), which the liver rapidly transforms into ketones. Purified MCTs are available for purchase, or you can simply take coconut oil, which is naturally rich in MCTs. You’ll see below that these approaches can be effective short-term, but my opinion is that they simply mask the underlying disease, which continues to worsen due to ongoing high insulin and/or blood glucose levels.
SUMMARY OF THE SCIENCE
I’ve listed all relevant studies covered in the 2017 Bostock review below, paying special attention to the human studies, and supplementing with original source material where helpful, as there were some minor errors in the text of the review.
Ketogenic Diets and Bipolar Disorder
2002: A one-month case study of a woman with unspecified, treatment-resistant bipolar disorder noted no improvement after two weeks on a ketogenic diet followed by two weeks of MCT oil supplementation. Urine testing found ketosis was never achieved.
2012: A case study of two women with bipolar II disorder who ate a ketogenic diet (one for two years, the other for three years) found that the diet was superior to the anticonvulsant/mood stabilizer lamotrigine (Lamictal) in management of symptoms. Ketosis was documented using urine test strips.
Ketogenic Diets and Schizophrenia
A 3-week mouse study showed that a ketogenic diet normalized pathological behaviors.
1965: A 2-week study of 10 women with treatment-refractory schizophrenia found a significant decrease in symptoms when a ketogenic diet was added to their ongoing standard treatments (medications + ECT). Ketone monitoring was not reported.
2009: A 12-month case study details the experience of a 70-year old overweight woman with chronic schizophrenia who was prescribed a diet limited to 20 grams of carbohydrate per day. She noted significant improvement in severe symptoms beginning only eight days after starting the diet, which consisted of “beef, poultry, ham, fish, green beans, tomatoes, diet drinks, and water.” [ Kraft and Westman 2009 Nutrition & Metabolism 6:10.] She reported complete resolution of auditory and visual hallucinations--with which she’d suffered since age seven. Ketone levels were not monitored.
Comment: This diet is best characterized as a low-carbohydrate, primarily whole foods diet. As protein wasn’t limited and fat intake wasn’t manipulated, this may or may not have been a truly ketogenic diet.
Ketogenic Diets and Anxiety
A rat study found that adding ketone supplements to a standard high-carbohydrate diet reduced anxious behavior.
Ketogenic Diets and Depression
A rat study found that a ketogenic diet reduced depressive behaviors.
A mouse study found that feeding pregnant animals a ketogenic diet reduced offspring susceptibility to depressed (and anxious) behaviors.
Ketogenic Diets and Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)
A 70-day mouse study found that a ketogenic diet improved behavior.
A 10-14 day rat study found that a ketogenic diet improved complex social behaviors and mitochondrial function.
A 3-4 week mouse study found that a ketogenic diet improved behaviors in ways that were different for males than females.
2003: A 6-month inpatient study evaluated the effects of a cyclical ketogenic diet (4 wks on, 2 wks off) on 30 children with ASD. Of the 18 children who completed the study, eight showed moderate improvement, and two showed “significant” improvement. Benefits appeared to persist even during the 2-week “diet-free” periods. Urine and blood ketone monitoring confirmed that all children were in ketosis.
Comment: blood ketone levels ranged from 1.8 to 2.2 mMol during ketogenic phases and from 0.8 to 1.5 mMol during “diet-free” periods, meaning that the children actually spent the entire 6-month study period in ketosis.
2013: A 14-month detailed case study of one child with ASD, epilepsy, and obesity who was placed on a ketogenic diet in combination with anti-epileptic medications, noted numerous improvements. “In addition to improvement in seizures, there was a 60-pound weight loss…as well as improved cognitive and language function, marked improvement in social skills, increased calmness, and complete resolution of stereotypies.” [Herbert and Buckley 2013 J Child Neurol 28(8)]. Ketosis was confirmed (presumably by urine testing).
Ketogenic Diets and ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder)
A 6-month study of dogs with ADHD and epilepsy found significant improvement in ADHD behaviors on a ketogenic diet.
Ketogenic Diets and Alzheimer’s disease
2009: A 90-day randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel study of 152 people with mild to moderate Alzheimer’s Disease tested the effects of a daily MCT supplement (previously marketed under the name Axona) on cognitive test performance. People continued their usual diets and took either the MCT supplement or a safflower oil placebo. Regular medications were continued throughout the study. At 45 and 90 days, patients taking MCTs showed significant improvement on a cognitive test known as the ADAS-Cog scale, unless they carried a gene called ApoE4, which is associated with higher risk for Alzheimer’s disease. Cognitive benefits did not persist after MCTs were discontinued.
Not mentioned in the Bostock review are the following two studies:
1) A 6-week study of a simple low-carbohydrate diet (protein and fat unrestricted) in people with mild cognitive impairment (MCI, aka “pre-Alzheimer’s” disease) demonstrating improvement in verbal memory, with greater benefits seen in those who achieved higher ketone levels [Krikorian R et al 2012 Neurobiol Aging 33(2):425].
2) A 20-month case study of a man with Alzheimer’s Disease whose cognition and function significantly improved with the use of ketone supplements [Newport MT et al 2015 Alzheimer’s & Dementia 11] .
Please also see my Psychology Today article Preventing Alzheimer's Is Easier Than You Think.
Limitations of the Research
If you are a ketogenic diet skeptic, you will find the above summary unimpressive. I can’t blame you—there is precious little human data about ketogenic diets and psychiatric disorders, and what is there is flawed: small sample sizes, no controls, ketosis unconfirmed in some cases, diet composition and length of treatment variable between studies, etc. However, as a low-carbohydrate diet enthusiast, I find much to be excited about in this ragtag fugitive fleet of papers.
Nutrition studies are hard. Blinding is nearly impossible, funding is hard to come by, compliance is challenging, and controls are difficult to design. Fear, bias, and nutrition miseducation limit the number of scientists interested in and willing to conduct studies of low-carbohydrate, high-fat diets. We clearly need high-quality human studies exploring the effects of ketogenic diets on mental health disorders, as many clinicians and patients will be afraid to utilize this diet without stronger evidence. If only more people held the USDA Dietary Guidelines to the same scientific standard and eyed it with the same healthy skepticism...
Ketogenic Diets in the Real World
Nevertheless, I believe in the therapeutic potential of low-carbohydrate diets to stabilize brain chemistry, and feel strongly that people should be made aware of dietary strategies as an option. For people who don’t want to take medication, haven’t responded to medication, can’t tolerate medication or can’t afford medication, nutritional intervention can offer real hope and empowerment. I personally noticed an overall improvement in concentration, mood, energy, and productivity when I changed my own diet years ago, and have witnessed people in my own practice whose mood stabilized by switching to a low-carbohydrate, high-fat, whole foods diet. My philosophy regarding the dietary treatment of mental health problems is as follows:
- Everyone should eat real, whole foods and minimize refined carbohydrates like sugar and flour. Most view this as common sense advice (with the notable exception of the USDA). I personally recommend a pre-agricultural dietary pattern (which includes animal protein/fat and eliminates grains/legumes).
- Those with insulin resistance (including those with type 2 diabetes) would be wise to make lifestyle changes that can help to normalize insulin and blood sugar levels. Strategies with the potential to accomplish this include simple low-carbohydrate diets, intermittent fasting, strength training, and caloric restriction. Education, professional guidance, support and medical monitoring are important to have in place before trying dietary changes, particularly if you have any health problems or take any medications.
- Individuals who have not benefited from the above changes or who simply want to try a different approach may wish to consider a ketogenic diet.
It could be many years before we see high-quality studies of ketogenic diets in the treatment of psychiatric disorders. For those of you who don’t want to wait that long—what do you need to know?
Ketogenic Diet Safety and Side Effects
The ketogenic diet is safe for most people, but there are clear exceptions to consider that go beyond the scope of this post, so please do not embark on a ketogenic diet yourself nor recommend it to someone else without first reading Is the Ketogenic Diet Safe for Everyone? and seeking additional guidance and resources to educate yourself about the diet. Two of the best books on the subject are The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Drs. Phinney and Volek, and The New Atkins for a New You by Dr. Eric Westman.
Some studies report side effects such as constipation, leg cramps, and increased risk of kidney stones. There are very real shifts in salt and fluid balance that occur in the early stages of the diet that may explain some of these side effects, but most people tolerate the diet well, including myself. My opinion is that the majority of side effects are not due to the low-carbohydrate, high-fat nature of the diet, but rather due to food choices. Unfortunately, most ketogenic diets, particularly those prescribed to children with epilepsy, are high in processed/artificial ingredients, and foods that many people are sensitive to, such as nuts, dairy, eggs, and biogenic amines.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/diagnosis-diet/201706/ketogenic-diets-psychiatric-disorders-new-2017-review
Sunday 22 October 2017
when I was 24 I lived at 8000 ft without this shortness of breath that I now have.
I'm 34. I don't have lung problems, but I have thalassemia minor, an inherited form of anemia that impairs the red blood cells' ability to transport oxygen. Of course, I've had that all my life, and when I was 24 I lived at 8000 ft without this shortness of breath that I now have.
freyasam, Mar 21, 2014
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Riboflavin supplementation improves energy metabolism in mice exposed to acute hypoxia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24564599
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B2 maybe helpful for Thalassaemia
This is extremely bad for business.A patient cured is a lost customer.
http://www.thalassemiapatientsandfriends.com/index.php/topic,3913.msg39228.html#msg39228
City Doctors Find Vitamin Cure For Thalassaemia
Times of India 16 September 2010 By Prithvijit Mitra Kolkata, India Thalassaemia research has been taking steady strides in Kolkata. Now, scientists at the NRS Medical College and Hospital have identified a vitamin that can retard the disintegration of haemoglobin, which leads to the potentially fatal disorder. By slowing down the decay of beta and alpha components of haemoglobin, the vitamin can reduce the need for blood transfusion. The study has been published in a medical journal and the research team is preparing for a human trial. While researching on the causes that trigger thalassaemia, a team of researchers at the biochemistry department of NRS – led by scientist Monoj Kar – chanced upon oxidative stress as a possible reason. "It breaks up haemoglobin into sub–units, which are the two sets of alpha and beta cells, making iron flow out of them. This leads to a process called fanton reaction which eventually leads to the death of the cell. We found that riboflavin, that is vitamin B2, slows down this disintegration process to a large extent. This could allow thalassaemia patients to go without blood transfusion for a longer period," explained Kar. The disintegration of haemoglobin and the consequent release of iron into the system could lead to other diseases as well. It often triggers rheumatoid arthritis, renal failure and diabetes. "This is a kind of a vicious cycle. The more iron you have in your system, the higher would be the risk of these diseases. So, the key is to slow down the process even if we can’t stop it completely," said Kar. West Bengal has 26,000 thalassaemia major patients. A majority of them survive on transfusion. Recently published in a medical journal, the study has raised hopes of at least a partial cure for thalassaemia patients. The decks are being cleared for a human trial which could pave the way riboflavin to be used as a drug. "The research has indeed shown that it effectively curbs the rate of red blood cell disintegration. Most importantly, this will reduce the flow of iron into the system of thalassaemia patients. The iron acts like free radicals and destroys cells. It could even lead to cancer in the long run," said Ashish Mukhopadhyay, director of the Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose Cancer Research Institute, Kolkata. The vitamin B2 could also help to reduce the impact of acquired haematological disorders like acquired hemolytic anaemia, auto–immune hemolytic anaemia, stress anaemia, blood group incompatibility and Rh incompatibility. Earlier this year, a group of Saha Institute of Nuclear Research (SINP) scientists came up with a pioneering research that could help early detection and better management of H e–beta thalassaemia (HbEß) – a form of the haematogical disease that could be life–threatening. It was globally acknowledged and published in the prestigious journal Proteomics – Clinical Application. Even though the paper had been ready by early 2008, it took the team of scientists almost two years to secure the recognition |
Well, if anyone ever wonders why I push a B-complex supplement, this should help answer that question. The recommended daily dose is actually quite low, but the supplement I take daily has 100 mg. B2 is necessary for the other B vitamins to be properly utilized, so it has added importance, along with the emerging evidence that it is a good antioxidant. There are various reasons to take antioxidants, but for thals, slowing the breakdown of red blood cells is a big reason. What this article suggests is that this may have application as a concentrated drug. For now, take your B-complex daily.
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Hello everyone,
I also had a question regarding supplements I've been giving Ari. One is a Bcomplex vitamin but it has Vit C. I stopped giving it to him for a while because I kept hearing Vit C was not good for thal children. I've listed what I have below. Can anyone guide me in the correct direction. I started him on Vitamin E and Vitamin D drops already. These are a few things I want to start introducing to him now. Can you please let me know if these next two multivitamins are okay to take together. They both have some of the same ingredients though so I'm nervous to do both. |
City Doctors Find Vitamin Cure For Thalassaemia
We found that riboflavin, that is vitamin B2, slows down this disintegration process to a large extent. This could allow thalassaemia patients to go without blood transfusion for a longer period," explained Kar. Here is a snip from a discussion about iron in Parkinsons .. and it seems the Phd here .. agrees to riboflavin .. TARGETING .. iron .. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We need to find some natural and safe substances (foods and/or supplements that cross the bbb) that will bind to free iron and clear it out of the brain. Two that I know of are green tea and lipoic acid. (those not interested in a bunch of chemistry should skip this paragraph ). Iron exists as either Fe(3+) or Fe(2+) and has an atomic number of 26 (26 protons). Thus Fe(3+) has 23 electrons and 5 electrons in the outer shell while Fe(2+) has 24 electrons and 6 in the outer shell. So for the chemistry pros out there, how many electrons in the outer shell would be most stable for Fe? This would determine what atoms or molecules would bond with either Fe(3+) or Fe(2+). Such atoms or molecules, if they were safe to ingest and crossed the bbb, could be used to lower the iron levels in the brains of PWP. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iron chelators -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You missed out one important chelator for the excess iron we parkies have, that is curcumin. Not only is it anti-inflammatory, and a powerful antioxidant, (more so in the presence of bioperine/piperine), but it has a 1,3 dione structure which makes it an excellent chelator of excess iron. Ferric iron is the more stable form of iron. Ferrous iron gradually oxidises to ferric and remains in ferric form since it is more stable. Intrestingly, I think vitamin B2 (riboflavin) also forms ferric complexes. Phd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please explain what you mean when you say that vitamin B-2 (riboflavin) also forms ferric complexes. Is that good, or is it not? I know nothing about chemistry beyond glaze making for pottery! ( all inorganic.) I hope is is good since I've been taking it and pushing it vigorously on others here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is good news, we need small amounts of iron for a stage in the series of reactions, converting the precursers to dopamine. However, Parkies tend to have an excess of iron which is a bad thing since it catalyses oxidation attack on the brain. A chemical that binds iron (or some other metals) is called a chelator, and vitamin B2 does this, as does curcumin. So B2 is capable of removing the excess of iron we have, and stops it doing any damage. B2 therefore fastens itself to the iron forming what is known as a complex, and removes the excess iron from your body. Hope this is a clear explanation. Phd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you so very much for answering my question so quickly and so fully. That is very good to know, and it makes complete sense to me though I know nothing at all about organic chemistry. They really did do us a favor those Brazilian scientists, however faulty their study. I will continue taking B-2, and now I will know WHY I take it, and why it helps. All the best to you too. __________________ |
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https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/long-term-shortness-of-breath-at-high-altitude.3443/
Saturday 21 October 2017
Altitude - less sleepy and motivated
 Low altitude sickness | |
 member Registered: 01/11/06 Posts: 2742 Loc: California |
Does anyone else get ill when returning to sea level from high altitude? I am lucky in that I aclimate quickly to altitudes of 10,00-14,000 feet but after every long trip, I am sick a day when I return to home at sea level. Plugged sinuses, headache. I am usually well rested and feeling great when I leave the trailhead and by the time I get home, ugh! I have tired not drinking beer or wine the day I return, staying on backpack food for a day - nothing seems to work. I fear it is the horrible air pollution down here in the lowlands. I am allergic to my home!
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| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| member Registered: 04/01/06 Posts: 23 Loc: Tahoma, CA |
wd- i live at 6200'- and when i visit the low lands, i feel very sleepy and headachey and unmotivated. my brother suggested that my body is used to thinner air- and when i go down in altitude, i super-saturate with o2; causing the malaise. eventually the excess red blood cells will die off- taxing your liver as well. fortunately i'm not usually at low altitude for more than a couple days. when i get home, i feel better.
your body will make more red blood cells to compensate for the lower o2 concentration at higher altitudes. i read a suggestion for dealing with this problem- donate blood right after a high altitude trip. i have not tried this approach for my sea-level visits, since i am only down there a couple days, and only once a year or so. it would take some "homework" to find a blood donation center & schedule an appointment & etc. - not a convenient job for a 48 hour trip, already scheduled full. if you try the blood donation, let me know how it goes. |
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| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| member Registered: 09/19/03 Posts: 1070 Loc: California |
Another idea to try, wd - I always feel like I retain more fluid for a few days after returning to lower elevations. I know that the tendency when getting to higher elevations is to be dehydrated, so maybe I'm just extrapolating, but how about trying things that tend to have a diuretic effect (sudafed, tea/coffee, grapefruit, melons - these are what I've read, anyway - etc. as well as generally low sodium intake for a few days)?
I usually feel energized the first day I'm back from a high-altitude trip myself, though not on my most recent trip...maybe because I had too many undone things waiting for me, hmmm? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I think the air is definitely cleaner up there, so allergies could also be the reason. I am always struck by the fact that my skin gets much clearer up there (no wayward zits like I usually have) even though I am not as clean in general. |
| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| member  Registered: 01/11/02 Posts: 788 Loc: Menlo Park, CA/Sierra Nevada |
I almost always seem to get that lazy feeling when returning to low altitude. Like dk, I also seem to retain water for a day or two Unfortunately I don't have a solution, but drinking lots of water has seemed to help the few times I've drank a lot of water on returning (diuretics only seemed to make things worse). Although I can't help but return from a trip and reach for the beer before the water <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| member Registered: 01/06/02 Posts: 2801 Loc: NorCal |
I'm always sore, but that's to be expected <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I too get fried airways and sinuses, and I've concluded it's because they get severely dried out in high altitude/low humidity and don't begin to heal until I get home to sea level. I'll use saline nasal spray in the mountains and back home to reduce the symptoms, but it only lessens the symptoms. The other thing is I have a hard time sleeping through the night when I get home, which seems counterintuitive considering the comfy bed and no bears skulking about the yard. |
| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: midnightsun03] | |
| member Registered: 04/01/06 Posts: 23 Loc: Tahoma, CA |
ms,
i haven't tried it directly. one time, when i was towards the end of my initial bleed out for hemochromotosis, i did make a trip down to the flats. did i have the malaise? no. i came back up to what was my last bleed- then ended up very anemic for a year...since then, a genetic test shows no hemochromotosis. i actually feel better (more energy) when a little anemic, even at altitude.(my note: blood donation) good suggestion to try to donate right before the low-altitude trip. i'll see if i can schedule it before my next trip. |
| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| member Registered: 01/22/08 Posts: 2801 |
I thought I was the only one with this problem - everyone else gets headaches at 10000+ feet, I get them when I get home. My sinuses also get impacted and painful. I think our bodies are trying to tell us we need to stay "home." (My note: This commentator gets sinus at low altitude)
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki |
| #101324 - 09/04/08 09:41 AM Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| member  Registered: 01/05/02 Posts: 1835 Loc: Los Angeles |
When I come back from a Sierra trip, even just a weekend, I feel like a million bucks during my first post trip workout.
If anything, returning home after a trip is a mental let down. My line of work can be depressing, especially after waking up next to a pristine meadow the day before. |
| #101325 - 09/04/08 07:24 PM Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy] | |
| Moderator  Registered: 06/24/07 Posts: 4107 Loc: Alberta, Canada | I don't find I get it from altitude - but I do from allergies.. The nice thing about the mountains is I can go there during the worst allergy times for me anywhere and not suffer. coming home is a different story - and I find I tend to notice it when I get back. You take anything for allergies? |
| Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: lori] | |
| member  Registered: 02/03/06 Posts: 6372 Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge |
No, I think our bodies are trying to tell us that we should have stayed out in the mountains!
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My Note: Perhaps, evolutionarily, we were more acclimatized to low oxygen!
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