Showing posts with label Altitude. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Altitude. Show all posts

Monday, 1 January 2018

Pemmican - 1:1 protein and fat and berries (perhaps berries for Vitamin C); In High Altitude and Cold and dry environments - people need fat

Protein poisoning

Protein poisoning (also referred to colloquially as rabbit starvation, mal de caribou, or fat starvation) is a rare form of acute malnutrition thought to be caused by a complete absence of fat in the diet.

Excess protein is sometimes cited as the cause of this issue; when meat and fat are consumed in the correct ratio, such as that found in pemmican (which is 50% fat by volume), the diet is considered nutritionally complete and can support humans for months or more. Other stressors, such as severe cold or a dry environment, may intensify symptoms (my note: dry weather and severe cold intensify protein poisoning symptoms. Hence, people in high altitudes consume higher amounts of fats. Example, people at high altitude typically prefer to eat sheep, not goat. Sheep is more fatty. Simiarly, people in northern hemisphere countries like US prefer beef which is quite fatty). or decrease time to onset. Symptoms include diarrhea, headache, fatigue, low blood pressure, slow heart rate, and a vague discomfort and hunger (very similar to a food craving) that can be satisfied only by the consumption of fat.

Protein poisoning was first noted as a consequence of eating rabbit meat exclusively, hence the term, "rabbit starvation". Rabbit meat is very lean; commercial rabbit meat has 50–100 g dissectable fat per 2 kg (live weight). Based on a carcass yield of 60%, rabbit meat is around 8.3% fat[1] while beef and pork are 32% fat and lamb 28%.[2]

Possible mechanisms[edit]
Given the lack of scientific data on the effects of high-protein diets, the US Food and Nutrition Board does not set a tolerable upper intake level nor upper acceptable macronutrient distribution range for protein.[3]
Observations[edit]
In U.S. Military Arctic Light Infantry Training (ALIT), it is taught that rabbit takes more vitamins to digest than it returns. It is recommended in survival situations to refrain from eating at all if rabbit is the only thing to eat.

The Arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson wrote as follows:

The groups that depend on the blubber animals are the most fortunate in the hunting way of life, for they never suffer from fat-hunger. This trouble is worst, so far as North America is concerned, among those forest Indians who depend at times on rabbits, the leanest animal in the North, and who develop the extreme fat-hunger known as rabbit-starvation. Rabbit eaters, if they have no fat from another source—beaver, moose, fish—will develop diarrhea in about a week, with headache, lassitude and vague discomfort. If there are enough rabbits, the people eat till their stomachs are distended; but no matter how much they eat they feel unsatisfied. Some think a man will die sooner if he eats continually of fat-free meat than if he eats nothing, but this is a belief on which sufficient evidence for a decision has not been gathered in the North. Deaths from rabbit-starvation, or from the eating of other skinny meat, are rare; for everyone understands the principle, and any possible preventive steps are naturally taken.[4]

During the Greely Arctic Expedition 1881–1884, a harrowing experience of 25 expedition members, of whom 19 died, Stefansson refers to "'rabbit starvation' which is now to me the key to the Greely problem," which was why "only six came back." He concludes that one of the reasons for the many deaths was cannibalism of the lean flesh of members who had already died. Stefansson likens this to rabbit starvation, which he explains somewhat as in the above quoted observation.[citation needed]

Charles Darwin, in The Voyage of the Beagle, wrote:

We were here able to buy some biscuit. I had now been several days without tasting any thing besides meat: I did not at all dislike this new regimen; but I felt as if it would only have agreed with me with hard exercise. I have heard that patients in England, when desired to confine themselves exclusively to an animal diet, even with the hope of life before their eyes, have hardly been able to endure it. Yet the Gaucho in the Pampas, for months together, touches nothing but beef. But they eat, I observe, a very large proportion of fat, which is of a less animalized nature; and they particularly dislike dry meat, such as that of the agouti. Dr. Richardson, also, has remarked, “that when people have fed for a long time solely upon lean animal food, the desire for fat becomes so insatiable, that they can consume a large quantity of unmixed and even oily fat without nausea:” this appears to me a curious physiological fact. It is, perhaps, from their meat regimen that the Gauchos, like other carnivorous animals, can abstain long from food. I was told that at Tandeel, some troops voluntarily pursued a party of Indians for three days, without eating or drinking.[5]

In Into the Wild (1996), Jon Krakauer conjectured that Chris McCandless might have suffered from rabbit starvation.

See also[edit]
Clostridial necrotizing enteritis, a.k.a. pigbel, another lethal protein-related diet problem
Country food/Inuit diet, the traditional diet of the Inuit and First Nations
Kwashiorkor – Disease resulting from sufficient caloric intake with very low protein content
Marasmus – Disease caused by inadequate caloric intake
No-carbohydrate diet
Protein toxicity – damage caused by buildup of protein metabolic waste products in the bloodstream
Proteopathy – damage caused by misfolded proteins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning

Pemmican is a concentrated mixture of fat and protein used as a nutritious food. Historically, it was an element of First Nations cuisine in certain parts of America.

Ingredients[edit]
The specific ingredients used for pemmican were usually whatever was available. The meat was often bison, deer, elk, or moose. Fruits such as cranberries and saskatoon berries were sometimes added. Blueberries, cherries, chokeberries, and currants were also used, but almost exclusively in ceremonial and wedding pemmican.[4]

Traditional preparation[edit]

Ball of pemmican.
Traditionally, pemmican was prepared from the lean meat of large game such as buffalo, elk, deer, or moose. The meat was cut in thin slices and dried, either over a slow fire or in the hot sun, until it was hard and brittle. (About 5 pounds (2,300 g) of meat are required to make 1 pound (450 g) of dried meat suitable for pemmican.) Then it was pounded into very small pieces, almost powder-like in consistency, using stones. The pounded meat was mixed with melted fat in an approximate 1:1 ratio by volume.[5] In some cases, dried fruits, such as blueberries, choke cherries, cranberries, or saskatoon berries, were pounded into powder and then added to the meat/fat mixture. The resulting mixture was then packed into rawhide bags for storage. It can be stored for a maximum of 10 years.[citation needed]

A bag of buffalo pemmican weighing about 90 lb (41 kg) was called a taureau (French for "bull") by the Métis of Red River. These bags of taureaux (lit. "bulls"), when mixed with fat from the udder, were known as taureaux fins, when mixed with bone marrow, as taureaux grand, and when mixed with berries, as taureaux à grains.[6] It generally took the meat of one buffalo to fill a taureau.[7]

Serving[edit]
In his notes of 1874, North-West Mounted Police Sergent-Major Sam Steele records three ways of serving pemmican: raw; boiled in a stew called "rubaboo"; or fried, known in the West as a "rechaud":[1]

The pemmican was cooked in two ways in the west; one a stew of pemmican, water, flour and, if they could be secured, wild onions or preserved potatoes. This was called "rubaboo"; the other was called by the plains hunters a "rechaud". It was cooked in a frying pan with onions and potatoes or alone. Some persons ate pemmican raw, but I must say I never had a taste for it that way.[8]

History[edit]
See also: Métis buffalo hunt § Pemmican trade
The voyageurs of the Canadian fur trade had no time to live off the land during the short season when the lakes and rivers were free of ice. They had to carry their food with them if the distance traveled was too great to be resupplied along the way.[9] A north canoe (canot du nord) with six men and 25 standard 90-pound (41 kg) packs required about four packs of food per 500 miles (800 km). Montreal-based canoemen could be supplied by sea or with locally grown food. Their main food was dried peas or beans, sea biscuit, and salt pork. (Western canoemen called their Montreal-based fellows mangeurs de lard or "pork-eaters".) In the Great Lakes, some maize and wild rice could be obtained locally. By the time trade reached the Winnipeg area, the pemmican trade was developed.[9]


Metis drying buffalo meat at St. François Xavier, Manitoba, Canada.
Métis would go southwest onto the prairie in Red River carts, slaughter buffalo, convert it into pemmican, and carry it north to trade at the North West Company posts. For these people on the edge of the prairie, the pemmican trade was as important a source of trade goods as was the beaver trade for the Indians farther north. This trade was a major factor in the emergence of a distinct Métis society. Packs of pemmican would be shipped north and stored at the major fur posts: Fort Alexander, Cumberland House, Île-à-la-Crosse, Fort Garry, Norway House, and Edmonton House. So important was pemmican that, in 1814, governor Miles Macdonell started the Pemmican War with the Métis when he passed the short-lived Pemmican Proclamation, which forbade the export of pemmican from the Red River Colony.[10]

Alexander Mackenzie relied on pemmican on his 1793 expedition across Canada to the Pacific.[11]

North Pole explorer Robert Peary used pemmican on all three of his expeditions, from 1886 to 1909, for both his men and his dogs. In his 1917 book Secrets of Polar Travel, he devoted several pages to the food, stating, "Too much cannot be said of the importance of pemmican to a polar expedition. It is an absolute sine qua non. Without it a sledge-party cannot compact its supplies within a limit of weight to make a serious polar journey successful."[12]

British polar expeditions fed a type of pemmican to their dogs as "sledging rations". Called "Bovril pemmican" or simply "dog pemmican", it was a beef product consisting, by volume, of 2/3 protein and 1/3 fat (i.e., a 2:1 ratio of protein to fat), without carbohydrate. It was later ascertained that although the dogs survived on it, this was not a nutritious and healthy diet for them, being too high in protein.[13] Members of Ernest Shackleton's 1914–1916 expedition to the Antarctic resorted to eating dog pemmican when they were stranded on ice for the winter.[14]

During the Second Boer War (1899–1902), British troops were given an iron ration made of four ounces of pemmican and four ounces of chocolate and sugar. The pemmican would keep in perfect condition for decades.[15] It was considered much superior to biltong, a form of cured game meats commonly used in Africa. This iron ration was prepared in two small tins (soldered together) which were fastened inside the soldiers' belts. It was the last ration used and it was used only as a last resort—when ordered by the commanding officer. A man could march on this for 36 hours before he began to drop from hunger.[16]

American adventurer Frederick Russell Burnham, while serving as Chief of Scouts for the British Army in South Africa, required pemmican to be carried by every scout.[17]

A 1945 scientific study of Pemmican criticized using it exclusively as a survival food because of the low levels of certain vitamins.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit

Sunday, 22 October 2017

when I was 24 I lived at 8000 ft without this shortness of breath that I now have.


I'm 34. I don't have lung problems, but I have thalassemia minor, an inherited form of anemia that impairs the red blood cells' ability to transport oxygen. Of course, I've had that all my life, and when I was 24 I lived at 8000 ft without this shortness of breath that I now have.

freyasam, Mar 21, 2014

***

Riboflavin supplementation improves energy metabolism in mice exposed to acute hypoxia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24564599

***

B2 maybe helpful for Thalassaemia

This is extremely bad for business.A patient cured is a lost customer.

http://www.thalassemiapatientsandfriends.com/index.php/topic,3913.msg39228.html#msg39228

love and prayers
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« on: March 07, 2011, 01:05:48 AM »

City Doctors Find Vitamin Cure For Thalassaemia
Times of India
16 September 2010
By Prithvijit Mitra
Kolkata, India

Thalassaemia research has been taking steady strides in Kolkata. Now, scientists at the NRS Medical College and Hospital have identified a vitamin that can retard the disintegration of haemoglobin, which leads to the potentially fatal disorder. By slowing down the decay of beta and alpha components of haemoglobin, the vitamin can reduce the need for blood transfusion. The study has been published in a medical journal and the research team is preparing for a human trial.

While researching on the causes that trigger thalassaemia, a team of researchers at the biochemistry department of NRS – led by scientist Monoj Kar – chanced upon oxidative stress as a possible reason. "It breaks up haemoglobin into sub–units, which are the two sets of alpha and beta cells, making iron flow out of them. This leads to a process called fanton reaction which eventually leads to the death of the cell. We found that riboflavin, that is vitamin B2, slows down this disintegration process to a large extent. This could allow thalassaemia patients to go without blood transfusion for a longer period," explained Kar.

The disintegration of haemoglobin and the consequent release of iron into the system could lead to other diseases as well. It often triggers rheumatoid arthritis, renal failure and diabetes. "This is a kind of a vicious cycle. The more iron you have in your system, the higher would be the risk of these diseases. So, the key is to slow down the process even if we can’t stop it completely," said Kar. West Bengal has 26,000 thalassaemia major patients. A majority of them survive on transfusion.

Recently published in a medical journal, the study has raised hopes of at least a partial cure for thalassaemia patients. The decks are being cleared for a human trial which could pave the way riboflavin to be used as a drug.

"The research has indeed shown that it effectively curbs the rate of red blood cell disintegration. Most importantly, this will reduce the flow of iron into the system of thalassaemia patients. The iron acts like free radicals and destroys cells. It could even lead to cancer in the long run," said Ashish Mukhopadhyay, director of the Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose Cancer Research Institute, Kolkata.

The vitamin B2 could also help to reduce the impact of acquired haematological disorders like acquired hemolytic anaemia, auto–immune hemolytic anaemia, stress anaemia, blood group incompatibility and Rh incompatibility.

Earlier this year, a group of Saha Institute of Nuclear Research (SINP) scientists came up with a pioneering research that could help early detection and better management of H e–beta thalassaemia (HbEß) – a form of the haematogical disease that could be life–threatening. It was globally acknowledged and published in the prestigious journal Proteomics – Clinical Application. Even though the paper had been ready by early 2008, it took the team of scientists almost two years to secure the recognition


Andy
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Will thal rule you or will you rule thal?

« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2011, 09:15:47 PM »

Well, if anyone ever wonders why I push a B-complex supplement, this should help answer that question. The recommended daily dose is actually quite low, but the supplement I take daily has 100 mg. B2 is necessary for the other B vitamins to be properly utilized, so it has added importance, along with the emerging evidence that it is a good antioxidant. There are various reasons to take antioxidants, but for thals, slowing the breakdown of red blood cells is a big reason. What this article suggests is that this may have application as a concentrated drug. For now, take your B-complex daily.
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 07:17:41 AM »

Hello everyone,

I also had a question regarding supplements I've been giving Ari.  One is a Bcomplex vitamin but it has Vit C.  I stopped giving it to him for a while because I kept hearing Vit C was not good for thal children. I've listed what I have below.  Can anyone guide me in the correct direction. 

I started him on Vitamin E and Vitamin D drops already.  These are a few things I want to start introducing to him now.  Can you please let me know if these next two multivitamins are okay to take together.  They both have some of the same ingredients though so I'm nervous to do both.

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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 12:48:11 PM »

City Doctors Find Vitamin Cure For Thalassaemia
We found that riboflavin, that is vitamin B2, slows down this disintegration process to a large extent. This could allow thalassaemia patients to go without blood transfusion for a longer period," explained Kar.

Here is a snip from a discussion about iron in Parkinsons .. and it
seems the Phd here .. agrees to riboflavin .. TARGETING .. iron ..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need to find some natural and safe substances (foods and/or
supplements that cross the bbb) that will bind to free iron and clear
it out of the brain. Two that I know of are green tea and lipoic acid.

(those not interested in a bunch of chemistry should skip this
paragraph ).

Iron exists as either Fe(3+) or Fe(2+) and has an atomic number of 26
(26 protons). Thus Fe(3+) has 23 electrons and 5 electrons in the outer
shell while Fe(2+) has 24 electrons and 6 in the outer shell. So for
the chemistry pros out there, how many electrons in the outer shell
would be most stable for Fe? This would determine what atoms or
molecules would bond with either Fe(3+) or Fe(2+). Such atoms or
molecules, if they were safe to ingest and crossed the bbb, could be
used to lower the iron levels in the brains of PWP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iron chelators

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You missed out one important chelator for the excess iron we parkies
have, that is curcumin. Not only is it anti-inflammatory, and a
powerful antioxidant, (more so in the presence of bioperine/piperine),
but it has a 1,3 dione structure which makes it an excellent chelator
of excess iron.
Ferric iron is the more stable form of iron. Ferrous iron gradually
oxidises to ferric and remains in ferric form since it is more stable.
Intrestingly, I think vitamin B2 (riboflavin) also forms ferric
complexes.
Phd


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please explain what you mean when you say that vitamin B-2 (riboflavin)
also forms ferric complexes.
Is that good, or is it not?
I know nothing about chemistry beyond glaze making for pottery! ( all
inorganic.)
I hope is is good since I've been taking it and pushing it vigorously
on others here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is good news, we need small amounts of iron for a stage in the
series of reactions, converting the precursers to dopamine. However,
Parkies tend to have an excess of iron which is a bad thing since it
catalyses oxidation attack on the brain.
A chemical that binds iron (or some other metals) is called a chelator,
and vitamin B2 does this, as does curcumin. So B2 is capable of
removing the excess of iron we have, and stops it doing any damage. B2
therefore fastens itself to the iron forming what is known as a
complex, and removes the excess iron from your body.
Hope this is a clear explanation.

Phd
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you so very much for answering my question so quickly and so
fully. That is very good to know, and it makes complete sense to me
though I know nothing at all about organic chemistry. They really did
do us a favor those Brazilian scientists, however faulty their study. I
will continue taking B-2, and now I will know WHY I take it, and why it
helps.
All the best to you too.
__________________


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https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/long-term-shortness-of-breath-at-high-altitude.3443/

Saturday, 21 October 2017

Altitude - less sleepy and motivated

 Low altitude sickness 
wandering_daisy Offline
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Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2742
Loc: California
Does anyone else get ill when returning to sea level from high altitude? I am lucky in that I aclimate quickly to altitudes of 10,00-14,000 feet but after every long trip, I am sick a day when I return to home at sea level. Plugged sinuses, headache. I am usually well rested and feeling great when I leave the trailhead and by the time I get home, ugh! I have tired not drinking beer or wine the day I return, staying on backpack food for a day - nothing seems to work. I fear it is the horrible air pollution down here in the lowlands. I am allergic to my home!

 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
tahomus Offline
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Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Tahoma, CA
wd- i live at 6200'- and when i visit the low lands, i feel very sleepy and headachey and unmotivated. my brother suggested that my body is used to thinner air- and when i go down in altitude, i super-saturate with o2; causing the malaise. eventually the excess red blood cells will die off- taxing your liver as well. fortunately i'm not usually at low altitude for more than a couple days. when i get home, i feel better. 

your body will make more red blood cells to compensate for the lower o2 concentration at higher altitudes. i read a suggestion for dealing with this problem- donate blood right after a high altitude trip. 

i have not tried this approach for my sea-level visits, since i am only down there a couple days, and only once a year or so. it would take some "homework" to find a blood donation center & schedule an appointment & etc. - not a convenient job for a 48 hour trip, already scheduled full.

if you try the blood donation, let me know how it goes.

#101313 - 08/17/08 09:45 PM Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
Paul Offline
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Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 778
Loc: California
Have you tried drinking a LOT of water on your way home and after you get there? This seems to help me. I don't get the sinus issues usually, but I do get the headache and malaise, and superhydrating seems to help.

 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
dkramalc Offline
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Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 1070
Loc: California
Another idea to try, wd - I always feel like I retain more fluid for a few days after returning to lower elevations. I know that the tendency when getting to higher elevations is to be dehydrated, so maybe I'm just extrapolating, but how about trying things that tend to have a diuretic effect (sudafed, tea/coffee, grapefruit, melons - these are what I've read, anyway - etc. as well as generally low sodium intake for a few days)?

I usually feel energized the first day I'm back from a high-altitude trip myself, though not on my most recent trip...maybe because I had too many undone things waiting for me, hmmm? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think the air is definitely cleaner up there, so allergies could also be the reason. I am always struck by the fact that my skin gets much clearer up there (no wayward zits like I usually have) even though I am not as clean in general.
My note: However, based on your observation, people in Hyderabad did not seem to have better skin than people in the plains. Perhaps, because of arid conditions at altitude. 

 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
trailblazer Offline
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Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 788
Loc: Menlo Park, CA/Sierra Nevada
I almost always seem to get that lazy feeling when returning to low altitude. Like dk, I also seem to retain water for a day or two Unfortunately I don't have a solution, but drinking lots of water has seemed to help the few times I've drank a lot of water on returning (diuretics only seemed to make things worse). Although I can't help but return from a trip and reach for the beer before the water <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
Rick_D Offline
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Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2801
Loc: NorCal
I'm always sore, but that's to be expected <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I too get fried airways and sinuses, and I've concluded it's because they get severely dried out in high altitude/low humidity and don't begin to heal until I get home to sea level.

I'll use saline nasal spray in the mountains and back home to reduce the symptoms, but it only lessens the symptoms.

The other thing is I have a hard time sleeping through the night when I get home, which seems counterintuitive considering the comfy bed and no bears skulking about the yard.

 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: midnightsun03]
tahomus Offline
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Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Tahoma, CA
ms,
i haven't tried it directly.
one time, when i was towards the end of my initial bleed out for hemochromotosis, i did make a trip down to the flats. did i have the malaise? no. i came back up to what was my last bleed- then ended up very anemic for a year...since then, a genetic test shows no hemochromotosis. i actually feel better (more energy) when a little anemic, even at altitude.(my note: blood donation)

good suggestion to try to donate right before the low-altitude trip. i'll see if i can schedule it before my next trip.
 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
lori Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I thought I was the only one with this problem - everyone else gets headaches at 10000+ feet, I get them when I get home. My sinuses also get impacted and painful. I think our bodies are trying to tell us we need to stay "home." (My note: This commentator gets sinus at low altitude)
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#101324 - 09/04/08 09:41 AM Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
Trailrunner Offline
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Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
When I come back from a Sierra trip, even just a weekend, I feel like a million bucks during my first post trip workout.

If anything, returning home after a trip is a mental let down. My line of work can be depressing, especially after waking up next to a pristine meadow the day before.

#101325 - 09/04/08 07:24 PM Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: wandering_daisy]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

I don't find I get it from altitude - but I do from allergies.. The nice thing about the mountains is I can go there during the worst allergy times for me anywhere and not suffer. coming home is a different story - and I find I tend to notice it when I get back. You take
anything for allergies?
 Re: Low altitude sickness [Re: lori]
OregonMouse Offline
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Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6372
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
No, I think our bodies are trying to tell us that we should have stayed out in the mountains!

My Note: Perhaps, evolutionarily, we were more acclimatized to low oxygen!